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Ibviewer
Kindergarten Brain
Username: Ibviewer
Post Number: 75
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 24.6.250.33
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 01, 2007 - 04:40 pm: | 
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I had Nishant DVD for several months but did not get time to watch it.
But now I am watching it.
These type of "art" films show things in realistic way.
Shabana washes the ass of his son in the realistic way.
I will post more as I watch the rest of the movie.
Sri Venkateshwara Swamy ki iddaru bhaaryalu: Lakshmi Devi and Lajja Devi. Lakshmi unna chota Lajja undadhu, Lajja unna Chota Lakshmi undadhu
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Unorthodox
Kindergarten Brain
Username: Unorthodox
Post Number: 48
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 75.36.180.223
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 31, 2007 - 08:34 am: |
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EK,
//Gulam lo lawyerga sesindi ee ammayena?//
Yes. Her rise to fame was a TV serial on Jesus where she played the role of Rebecca, may be during early 90's. Then she was regular in some of the art films, including Govind Nihalani's Drohkaal (In Drohi, Gautami replaced her)
"What I'm suggesting to you is, if you can't name the foreign minister of Mexico, therefore, you know, you're not capable of what you do. But the truth of the matter is you are, whether you can or not." --George W. Bush, as quoted in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, Nov. 6, 1999.
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Eluri_kurradu
Junior Brain
Username: Eluri_kurradu
Post Number: 136
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 192.8.211.11
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 31, 2007 - 03:28 am: |
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Unortho thanks for the link yues it is the same movie. >.Is there Mita Vasishth in the film? >>
Gulam lo lawyerga sesindi ee ammayena?
Ayithe undi
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Getafix
Kindergarten Brain
Username: Getafix
Post Number: 15
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 198.160.96.25
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - 10:35 am: |
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I thought Citizen Kane topped the list of all time best 100 movies list! |
Nihil
Junior Brain
Username: Nihil
Post Number: 171
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 59.93.113.41
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - 09:44 am: |
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Unortho bhai
i am surprised to know that u haven't seen Aguirre-Wrath of God 
such a masterpeice , it has got 1 place in Times list of 100 great movies of the century.
This is the opening scene
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GkW51YFgFjk
Have fun |
Unorthodox
Kindergarten Brain
Username: Unorthodox
Post Number: 46
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 75.36.176.34
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - 08:51 am: |
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EK,
The movie you are talking about could be 'Maya' (2001)-I did not watch the movie yet. It's funny how the themes are like this, especially when people eye international market. The crew and producing partners are from foriegn.
Is there Mita Vasishth in the film?
http://www.kundalinipictures.com/nav.php?page=maya
"What I'm suggesting to you is, if you can't name the foreign minister of Mexico, therefore, you know, you're not capable of what you do. But the truth of the matter is you are, whether you can or not." --George W. Bush, as quoted in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, Nov. 6, 1999.
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Eluri_kurradu
Junior Brain
Username: Eluri_kurradu
Post Number: 116
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 192.8.211.11
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - 01:33 am: |
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na post 103 loseppina movie wvaraina soosara?
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Eruvaka
Kindergarten Brain
Username: Eruvaka
Post Number: 3
Registered: 05-2007
Posted From: 70.101.114.128
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 10:00 pm: |
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>>Story lo clarity lekapovadam anedi chaalaa vaatilo untundi-Even hits like Vishwanath's sagarasangamam and Mani's Anjali suffer from this ailment ani naa abhipraayam.
What parts of these two movies are not clear?
A movie is a depiction. It need not have a story line. In otherwords, "how" is just as important as "what". Both the above movies are made using the "how" concept- "how" the protogonists dealth with the issues. This is more evident in Mani's Anjali, a text book movie for screenplay. But neither suffer from lack of clarity - their box-office success is a measure of their easily understood and easily assimilated themes. |
Eruvaka
Kindergarten Brain
Username: Eruvaka
Post Number: 2
Registered: 05-2007
Posted From: 70.101.114.128
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 09:53 pm: |
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I was very young when Ankur and Nishant were first released. The whole country celebrated Shyam as a fresh beath of air in an otherwise suffocating era. I was just too young to grasp the issues, but Andhra Jyothi weekly, used to be quite a literary mag those days, ran long debates on these two pictures. People no less than Arudra, K.Rama Lakshmi, Ranganaikamma, T.L. Kantha Rao etc has fistfights on these two movies.
Nenu cineema bommalu soosukunta, entehe ee edhava gola ani anukune vadini.
My most favorite Benegal movie is Bhumika starring the lovely Smita Patil and ofcourse, Vanraj Bhatia's oustanding music. |
Unorthodox
Kindergarten Brain
Username: Unorthodox
Post Number: 45
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 75.36.176.34
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 09:42 pm: |
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Nihil tammudu,
I have not heard of those 2 films you mentioned. I would definitely watch them when I get a chance. nuvvu cheppavante baagaa undi undaali, untaayi...
Anand,
goppa art create cheyyali ante kadha complicated gaa unda kuudadu ani naa abhipraayam.
Nishant case lo-shabana clear gaa nenu oppressors daggare untaanu ani chepte, it would have made more sense-then it would have made us think on the lines of why she took that decision. edee cleargaa cheppaka povadamto-we are deprived of an opportunity to think.
Story lo clarity lekapovadam anedi chaalaa vaatilo untundi-Even hits like Vishwanath's sagarasangamam and Mani's Anjali suffer from this ailment ani naa abhipraayam. Through line is clearly missing in sagarasangamam, though each scene is dramatic.
Aakrosh lo Ompuri chellelini chpestaadu, Ardh Satya lo MLA ni chapestaadu. Vaalliddarni evaru champaro cheppakundaa, just murder ni chuupiste emavutundi? renduu murders e ayinaa, there is lot of diffrence between them, which is very important for the writer and the viewer and it's the task of the writer to iron out the details.
Mahesh Elkunchwar peru vine untaaru. He is a marathi playwrite and plays the role of Marxist in Aakrosh. Nasserddin shaw to oka dialogue untundi-'jarugutunna paristiti ni chuusi padaalsindi jaali kaadu, chetanayite aadivaasilalo kraanti ni teesuku raavaali ani'.Ompuri does not kill the oppressors but his sister, who probably might be a potential prey being a woman. As opposed to this in Ardh Satya, he kills the MLA(sadashiv's first appearance) directly.
akkada Ompuri champaadu ani direct gaa cheppaka pote, there won't be any art. Cheppalsina vishayaanni daachadam anedi proper kaadu. Crude gaa cheppedaanni subtle gaa cheppa vachchu, but asalu cheppalsina vishayanni daayakuudadu.
Aakrosh kadha simple gaane untundi, goppa kadhalannee simple gaane untaayane feeling naaku eppuduu undedi. I am yet to see a great film which is difficult to follow. kaanee startling inferences make us think. It's ironic that Ompuri does the opposite of what Mahesh Elkunchwar says in the film-he kills his sister out of Jaali, courtesy.
inkaa shocking entante-one brahmin(nasserddin shaw) tries to help Ompuri (lahanya Bhiku, an adivasi) while an Adivaasi(amrish puri) tries to suppress the case.
ee rendu points subtle gaa unnaayi-Vijay Tendulkar does extremely well.
"What I'm suggesting to you is, if you can't name the foreign minister of Mexico, therefore, you know, you're not capable of what you do. But the truth of the matter is you are, whether you can or not." --George W. Bush, as quoted in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, Nov. 6, 1999.
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Unorthodox
Kindergarten Brain
Username: Unorthodox
Post Number: 44
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 75.36.176.34
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 09:37 pm: |
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EK, Eruvaka and Xdasara,
You guys are right.
Shyam Benegal is not a TELUGU-but belongs to a Hindu Brahmin sect of konkani lineage.
Sorry for the confusion. Some assumptions led me to wrongly conclude that he is a telugu.
Assumptions:
I knew that GuruDutt, kalpana Lajmi (director of Rudaali), Dev Benegal(director of 'English, August' and Split wide open) and Gautam benegal(animator) are related to Shyam Benegal--but all the while I was thinking of the transformation from 'Venigalla' to 'Benegal' and assumed that Dev and Gautam are from shyam's telugu side and are migrated people to bombay from andhra and acquired relationship with GuruDutt and Kalpana Lajmi through probabaly just one marraige, because it was not uncommon among artists to have relations with different language, state and religion people. Few example as below.
Rakhee(bengali)-Sampoorna Singh (famous by the name Gulzar)
Nagarjuna(telugu)-Amala(Irish-bengali)
Jayaprada(telugu)-Srikanth Nahata
Jayasudha(telugu)-Nitin Kapoor
Kishore Kumar(bengali)-Leena Chandravarkar(marathi)
Gavaskar's sister(marathi)-Gundappa Viswanath (kannadiga)
Muzaffar Ali(Director of Umraojaan, Gaman)-Subhashini Sehgal (punjabi)---parents of Shaad Ali, asst of ManiRathnam before directing 'Sathia' and 'Bunty Aur Babli'
Asmit Patel(bro of amisha patel, a gujarati)-Riya Sen (daughter of Moonmoon, bengali).
Also, he was born and brought up in Hyderabad for atleast 18 years or so and also this strange information of transformation of title from Venigalla to Benegal, read probably from some book by aarudra or pratap reddy-don't remember exactly---somewhat similar to transformation of Gujarati name Krishna Bhanji to Ben Kingsley(who acted in Gandhi, Schindler's list etc). Moreover he brought a remote book Amaravati Kadhalu by Satyam to DD.
Now only I came to know that Anugraham is not a original telugu story but was made in telugu from marathi story named kondura.
Is Shyam Benegal related with Leela Naidu (who acted in his Trikaal)????
I also read somewhere that V Shantaram's(famous marathi director) ancestors are telugu and migrated from a village near Bhattiprolu (near tenali)-now I am suspicious of that too.
I also read another variation-Benagala Syamala Rao, which again is just wrong information.
When there was a clash between the jury members for Dadasaheb award for ramanaidu/Shyam benegal-the article said both are form Andhra. I assumed he is a telugu.
Corrections:
Relationship with Gurudutt is 3 generations old and Benegal titled clan is a big one among saraswat brahmins of larger konkani sect. They usually spoke 2 languages and people on karnataka side acquired more of a kannadiga status (girish Karnad, anant Nag and Shankar Nag-may be because their ancestors stayed there for too long) and also people on interior maharastra side. Venigalla to Benegal transformation is, for sure, a wrong info I read. Looks like konkani people are in lot of areas-kashmir, maharstra, goa(a big lot),karnataka, kerala. Looks like the Benegal clan was involved in some tax collection profession too like kulkarnis.
There is more info from wike here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saraswat_Brahmins
"What I'm suggesting to you is, if you can't name the foreign minister of Mexico, therefore, you know, you're not capable of what you do. But the truth of the matter is you are, whether you can or not." --George W. Bush, as quoted in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, Nov. 6, 1999.
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Xdasara_bullodux
Junior Brain
Username: Xdasara_bullodux
Post Number: 430
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 61.95.204.112
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 01:12 am: |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shyam_Benegal
(born 14 December, 1934 in Alwal, Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh, British India)
Benegal is related to the famous film director and
actor Guru Dutt Padukone - contrary to what is generally believed. His paternal grand-mother and Guru Dutt's maternal grand-mother were sisters. Both are nominally Konkani speaking Chitrapur Saraswats. |
Eluri_kurradu
Junior Brain
Username: Eluri_kurradu
Post Number: 107
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 192.8.211.11
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 12:47 am: |
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ananad unortho he might have been from andhra but his lastname suggest he is a GSB so konkini speaking.
Several udipi hotel owners in andhra are GSBs and they are from konkini clan
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Nihil
Junior Brain
Username: Nihil
Post Number: 169
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 59.93.115.251
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 11:14 pm: |
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as to your other post have not seen or even heard of that movie ' thankfully'
---
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Anand_n
Junior Brain
Username: Anand_n
Post Number: 326
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 70.120.69.180
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 09:53 pm: |
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EK,
Shyam Benegal is from AP...as to your other post have not seen or even heard of that movie -thankfully
http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/southasia/Culture/Cinema/Benegal.html
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
Suraj ki pehli kiran se, asha ka savera jage chanda ki kiraN se dhul kar, ghanghor andhera bhage
kabhi dhoop khile kabhi chhaav mile,lambii sii Dagar na khale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
ik aise gagan ke tale
http://www.dishant.com/album/The_Golden_Collection_Vol_2_-_Kishore_Kumar.html
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Eruvaka
Kindergarten Brain
Username: Eruvaka
Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2007
Posted From: 70.101.114.128
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 08:39 pm: |
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>>Lot of people think he is a bengali. His original name is Venigalla Shyam Sundar-telugu bidda from Hyderabad, settled in Bombay.
I do not think Shyam Benegal is a Telugu. I know a lot of people from the Venigalla clan, none of them ever mentioned it, though they would be proud to make him their own.. He is neither a Telugu nor a Bengali. My guess is, he is a Konkani. He is a cousin of the great Guru Dutt -- hero, director and photographer extraordinaire. Since Guru Dutt is a Konkani, I would assume, Shyam Benegal is also a Konkani, atleast from one parent side. |
Eluri_kurradu
Junior Brain
Username: Eluri_kurradu
Post Number: 105
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 192.8.211.11
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 05:58 am: |
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Unortho You said benagal is a andhrawalla, ru sure?
Konkani people have a lastnames like benegal,
infact I had a friend with that lastname and he is a GSB.
My uncle used to tellme about benagal being telugu but after meeting this friend i thought benegal is a konkini guy
Anyway thanks for the info
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Eluri_kurradu
Junior Brain
Username: Eluri_kurradu
Post Number: 103
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 192.8.211.11
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 04:41 am: |
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Friends I remember one so called by art movie starring Ananthnag and pairing him was the actress (Lawyer) from Gulam as wife and husband and their( I think his brother’s) daughter becomes pushpavathi. And during the ceremony all pujaris in the temple will be screwing her one after the other. This movie is full of prejudice and falls things and with Andhra backdrop can basically satisfy people like Gatha.
I saw this in Australia but I don’t know if it had passed the censor in India.
I think if it happens in a jungle in a Tribal thanda probably I may think it may happen.
But it looks like some small town backdrop and everyone in the family knows that pujaris going to screws their little daughters in front of Hindu gods, is unpalatable to me. I could not sleep for a week after watching the movie. The ceremony is in the climax and it every lead scene looks normal but creates some kind of suspicion as if some thing wrong is going to happen.
I do not know who made this film. But only the telugu names and the telugu backdrop (you can here some telugu words here and there). I started watching it though the lead pair speaks city-Hindi.
I think somebody wants to show bad things( which never happens) and blame it on religion and India and make some money.
Did anyone has seen this movie?
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Anand_n
Junior Brain
Username: Anand_n
Post Number: 313
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 70.120.69.180
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 05:45 pm: |
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Nihil,
Ofcourse art in any form CAN be used as a medium to make a socio-political statement..
Add Michael Moore's and even Chaplin's films to your list..
And like you mentioned, on the flip side, socio-political affiliation of the artist does impact how the art is perceived /received
But there is pure art too - Impressionist paintings , Wordsworth's poetry on nature and so on ...
Remove people out of the picture and you may get pure art - exception - Anne Geddes baby pictures are pure art I think
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
Suraj ki pehli kiran se, asha ka savera jage chanda ki kiraN se dhul kar, ghanghor andhera bhage
kabhi dhoop khile kabhi chhaav mile,lambii sii Dagar na khale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
ik aise gagan ke tale
http://www.dishant.com/album/The_Golden_Collection_Vol_2_-_Kishore_Kumar.html
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Nihil
Junior Brain
Username: Nihil
Post Number: 168
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 59.93.102.90
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 26, 2007 - 10:57 pm: |
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Art does not have to make a socio-political statement And most times it does not ...
-----------------------------
We will have a look @ other side of the plank where it does and how did it matters
1.....As i mentioned below Leni Reifenstahl .. though hailed as a fine and revolutionary film maker ... Her career had been ruined just beacuse of her association with the Nazi party thus reflected in her films
2.....Charlie Chaplin ..... victim of McCatrthysim during cold war ... due to his Leftist sympathies he was harassed by FBI in USA and banned from entering USA ....
some more examples include ....Robert Oppenheimer( Atom Bomb ... Manhattan Project Director )
John Lennon .... Beatles music band
3....At the same time in Russia ..... scoresof scientists and Artists were persecuted for their socio-political beliefs which may/ mayn't reflected in thier art
4...... Hitler had done the same thing ..... A separate branch was named after Jews ....their art and science had been branded and discarded.... Albert Einstein, Sigmund Freud
5.....If u take recent examples u should have known about how menacing it is to be Dixie Chicks ...... Just because they opposed Iraq war, criticised Bush they are facing a tough time in USA .....
6......The famous Mona Lisa Smile is however apolitical it is from outset .... has captivated the people .. waht was it like the social situation for that paiting
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Chitti_chilakamma
Kindergarten Brain
Username: Chitti_chilakamma
Post Number: 16
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 124.197.37.72
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 26, 2007 - 07:46 pm: |
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//Is there such a thing as pure art, or does all art make a socio-political statement?//
any art that made with the intention of exhibition it surely holds a socio-political view
even if it wasnt.. every artist's psyche is a result of his environment his socio-political environment.. hence any art he makes .. is a result of that .. whether it is in compliance with the contemporary socio-political scene.. is a different ball game altogether
-- I've heard this life is overrated
but I hope that it gets better as we go --
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Nihil
Junior Brain
Username: Nihil
Post Number: 167
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 59.93.118.31
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 26, 2007 - 06:48 pm: |
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Is there such a thing as pure art, or does all art make a socio-political statement?" **/
Art does not have to make a socio-political statement And most times it does not ...
------------------
Anand Ji
This complex thing doesn't yield to Yes or No black&white answer
even my question is an open ended statement as u mentioned in the explanation ..... wide interpretation ......
we can go either way ....lot of grey area
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Anand_n
Junior Brain
Username: Anand_n
Post Number: 305
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 70.120.69.180
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 26, 2007 - 06:15 pm: |
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Nihil,
/**"Is there such a thing as pure art, or does all art make a socio-political statement?" **/
Art does not have to make a socio-political statement And most times it does not ...
But if it is open ended some people will interpret it that way and others will see a whole different picture depending on their viewpoint
Ever played the game 'What do you see'? You draw a basic line drawing-e.g two concentric circles and ask people to write down what they see- you get an interesting range of answers.
On the other hand if you tell them this is the sketch of a bucket on a table viewed from the top, that is all they see
difference between open and close ended plots
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
Suraj ki pehli kiran se, asha ka savera jage chanda ki kiraN se dhul kar, ghanghor andhera bhage
kabhi dhoop khile kabhi chhaav mile,lambii sii Dagar na khale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
ik aise gagan ke tale
http://www.dishant.com/album/The_Golden_Collection_Vol_2_-_Kishore_Kumar.html
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Nihil
Junior Brain
Username: Nihil
Post Number: 166
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 59.93.118.31
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 26, 2007 - 05:40 pm: |
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Unortho Bhai
-------------
i would like to know about ur take on these two films
1... Triumph of the will : considered to be one of the best propaganda films to date
chronicling the 1934 Nazi Party Congress in Nuremberg.
Directed and photographed by Leni Riefenstahl
Riefenstahl's techniques, such as moving cameras, the use of telephoto lenses to create a distorted perspective, aerial photography, and revolutionary approach to the use of music and cinematography, that being 70 Yr back when there was limited technology
The Economist said it "sealed her reputation as the greatest female filmmaker of the 20th century
Her film technique and visuals have been copied umpteen number of times
just to take some recent examples ..... Gladiator lo Montage soldiers scene , Star wars lo war scenes
Due to her political connections with Hitler , her career was ruined after the war ,even though she was such an exceptional talent
Triumph of the will - Intro
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BddVfcQX-v4&mode=related&search=
Another master piece of her ......Olympia
coverage of swimming competion in olympics
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KwmYFz01MxA&mode=related&search=
------------------
2.....Another German Film ...Aguirre the Wrath of God .. by Werner Herzog
A group of spaniards went to amazon jungle in search of a gold mine .....Depicting human suffering, greed, pychology in the most unforgiving circumstances with unexpected juxtapositions
-----------------
Anand ji
it boils down to this
"a classic question of the contest between art and morality: Is there such a thing as pure art, or does all art make a socio-political statement?"
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Cylonesubbarao
Junior Brain
Username: Cylonesubbarao
Post Number: 359
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 70.105.17.215
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 26, 2007 - 04:36 pm: |
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Good points Unortho....! 5 *
dehamundi pranamundi netturundi sattuvundi intakanna sainyamunduna
aasaneeku astramounu swasa neeku sastramounu asayammu saaradhounura
nirantaram prayatnamunnada nirasake nirasa puttada
aayuvantu unnavaraku chavukooda neggaleka savamupaina gelupuchaturaa
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Anand_n
Junior Brain
Username: Anand_n
Post Number: 304
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 70.120.69.180
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 26, 2007 - 04:18 pm: |
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Unortho,
5 * as usual
/**Newwave films often end up with the audience questioning the character's decisions than the director questioning the socio, economic situation-primarily because of the minimal plot of the story.**/
Very well said. But that is the purpose, isn't it t? To make the audience think...The director does not justify every action of the protagonist - infact does not judge it as right or wrong - leaves it to the audience as to how they see it - is it confusing _ I don't think so unless you try to compare notes and see if the guy next to you understood it the same way you did
I personally like open-ended plots.The audience is not spoonfed all the answers Its kind of like reading a book - you have the words but your imagination makes it unique to you - which is why the movie based on the book is never like you envisioned it
/** In Nishant what efforts were made by the woman captivated to get liberated by herself**/
See, I saw Nishant completely differently- as the woman as a metaphor for the victimised people..
She is like the general populace - hits an unexpected low in life - goes thru the phases of shock, denial-refusing to eat, acceptance of her fate , and then trying to make the best within the boundaries available to her,e.g insisting on little privileges like a separate kitchen,visits to the temple which then become here personal victories, and then it becomes her comfort zone which she is afraid to break out of
The oppressed people do the same don't they - initial outrage, gives way to passive resistance and then people try to make the best of what they have,satisfy themselves with little prizes and convince themselves that's all they need ...They rarely make the effort to break out of that cycle themselves...expect someone else to change the system for them And if someone does take the cudgels on their behalf , they will be the ones to say why does he bother , we are ok with it
I think art should be open to interpretation. Anni package chesi , plot full ga decipher chesi , mana burraki pani lekunda cheste - somehow I feel it becomes a technical treatise than a piece of art
But you right, it will go down better with the audience - like our commercial cinema
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
Suraj ki pehli kiran se, asha ka savera jage chanda ki kiraN se dhul kar, ghanghor andhera bhage
kabhi dhoop khile kabhi chhaav mile,lambii sii Dagar na khale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
ik aise gagan ke tale
http://www.dishant.com/album/The_Golden_Collection_Vol_2_-_Kishore_Kumar.html
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Nihil
Junior Brain
Username: Nihil
Post Number: 165
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 59.93.115.72
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 10:13 pm: |
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Unorhto bhai
--------------
5 *
An indepth analysis of the parellal cinema --story , screen play and directorial treatment
Though i haven't watched any of the movies u mentioned apart from 'Nishant' i did get ur point
U really struck the cord with these comments
1... Passive subordiantion of the women in those movies ( Spineless women )
2...It's the responsibilty of the writer to present the story in a lucid manner, and it should not be the pain of the viewer to try to understand the story. After understanding the basic story, if the viewer can find innumerable interpretations or associations or multi-layered inferences, it's a different matter altogether""""
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U have really shown another colour of the Kaleidoscope
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Unorthodox
Kindergarten Brain
Username: Unorthodox
Post Number: 42
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 75.36.176.34
Rating:
Votes: 9 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 09:54 pm: |
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1) About Shyam Benegal:
Lot of people think he is a bengali. His original name is Venigalla Shyam Sundar-telugu bidda from Hyderabad, settled in Bombay. He made a telugu film called 'Anugraham' with VaniSri. His first film Ankur and later film Nishant had telengana backdrops. The book 'Amaravati kadhalu' by Sankaramanchi Satyam was made into TV episodes by Shyam Benagal with the name 'Amravati ki kadhaayein'-shot on location at Amaravati (Guntur daggaradi-maharastra amaravati kaadu).
Inaddition, he made Nehru's 'Discovery oF India' into TV episodes for DD. He often worked with Govind Nihalani as cinematographer, before he became a director himself and Vanraj Bhatia for background score.
Unlike other struggling parallel cinema( euphemism for art cinema) directors, he continued to make films despite his films not being so successful.
2) About Nishant and confusion:
I happen to see Nishant some 20 years back.
Not just this-Even Shyam Benagal's other films-Ankur and Junoon had confused story line-why? Because of minimal plot. To understand this we have to go little back in the history of cinema. There are 2 distinct streams with in parallel cinema: Neo-realist cinema and Newwave cinema (from french term 'Nouvelle Vague').
Neo-realist cinema: Stories clear gaa, unabiguous gaa untaayi-Zavettini, Vittorio Dessica, Satyajit Ray,Ak Bir,Girish kasaravelli, Balu Mahendra etc. Bottom rung society people pains untaayi-avi kaliginchina vaalla meeda tiragabade prayatnam kaanee, aa praytnaanni galmorise chese attempt kaanee kanipinchadu. plot ee cinemaallo baagaane untundi. story lo confusion undadu. Ray is often criticised for being non-political. Akira Kurosawa was a big time fan of Satyajit Ray. We can probably put Ingmar Bergman in this category.
ee category lo oka example-Vittorio Dessica's The bicycle thieves-indulo hero poor, married with a 9 year old kid-wall papers atikinche job ki intlo annee taakattu petti cycle konaalsi vastundi. aa cycle okadu dongilistaadu-adi vetukutuu 'Rome' antaa tirugutaadu. donganu pattukuntaadu, kaani aa colony vallu tanni pampistaaru. chivaraku chesedi leka hero vere evarido cycle dongatanam chestaadu. akkada vunna vallu vachchi chempa pagala godataaru.
ikkada asalu atanu enduku poor, why some people are rich? or why there are few jobs-laanti questions ni director explore cheyyadu. Rather, the director is interested in the human condition and the plight of the poor-pushed to the extent of unbearable poverty-how the morality of a person could take a back seat-ane point ni explore chestaadu. ide newwave cinema ayite-story probably would have dealt more with the oppressors and the revolt of the hero for being poor.
Newwave cinema: If you try to find a narrative and reasonable story in newwave films, most of the times-you will fail. India lo idi 'Ankur' to start ayyindi. France lo '400 blows' by Truffaut and 'breathless' by Jean Luc Goddard to modalayyindi. ee stories minimal plot to untaayi-hence the confusion. Narrative takes a backseat and shock value is the primary motivation. Ee category lo annee confusing gaa undaalani ledu, ekkuva saatam confused minimal plots. Mrinal Sen, Ak Bir, Gautam ghose, B Narasingarao, Govind Nihalani, Aadoor, CP Padmakumar,Jhonu Barua-ee category directors.
Now coming to Nishant and Ankur: ikkada Shyam Benegal cheppadaluchukunna vishayam-feudals e vidhangaa-powerless, money less people's freedom, rights ni encroach chestunnaarane vishayam-that's all there to read from these films. If you read more it will be chaotic-because these stories do not follow a proper plot according to Aristotle's poetics.
According to Lajos Egri, the author of 'The art of Dramatic writing'-a good plot is one where all the options for a character under pressure are considered and the character is forced to behave in only one convincing way. If audience come up with other alternatives than the one shown in the film, it might still work, but will not be a compelling story and it falls under minimal plot. The more a Screen writer inches towards a minimal plot, the more the audience shrinks.
Newwave films often end up with the audience questioning the character's decisions than the director questioning the socio, economic situation-primarily because of the minimal plot of the story. In Nishant what efforts were made by the woman captivated to get liberated by herself? In Ankur, what does Shyam want to tell when a little boy throws stones in the climax on Anant Nag's house? this is not connected with the plight of Laxmi( Shabana Ajmi) or her husband Sadhu Meher. These questions are not answered by the stories and hence they are not satisfactory stories-whether you like or not is a different issue.
In Ankur-anantNag, The son of the landlord returns from town and mates with Laxmi(shabana ajmi), the working woman in his fields, while laxmi's mute husband is away. The husband returns and Anantnag beats the husband, asumming that the husband knew the secret. Shaban shouts at him and a kid hurls stones on the house AnantNag enters. Nothing is explained on what's the take of Shabana in the whole issue? Another spineless woman's portrayal.
Mani Rathanam once went to a village and watched his own film 'Mouna Raagam' and a villager comments-'denemma mogudito kaapuram cheyyadam anta baadhagaa unte vaadini vodilesi inkodini pelli chesukovachchugaa?'. Mani Rathnam later said in an interview-the villager was right and that he did not consider the option of escape from marriage as an option for Revathi or rather the idea did not struck him.
Another example-Monsoon Wedding-people may give rave reviews and it did win a golden lion at Venice film festival. It's a poor plot and is a minimal plot-what is the connection between the climax and the remaining story-if there is any? For me, the scenes of a story have to be coherent and there should be organic evolution. Where is the conflict in the story to drive the plot? It did collect 60 millions dollars world wide-goras were talking about dances and sarees-But for me it's a disappointing film-Mira Nair is yet to make a good film after Salaam Bombay, one of the only 3 indian films ever nominated for an oscar.
As opposed to this-If we look at Vijay Tendulakr's stories of Ardh Satya and Aakrosh-Om Puri kills Sadashiv Amrapurkar in ArdhSatyaand his sister in Aakrosh. Both of these are examples of close-ended plots where the hero's actions in the climax are given reasoning by the rest of the film or the climax evolves coherently from the previous scenes. Whether killing is justified is a different question but the act of killing does close the plot.
In Aakrosh Ompuri's wife(smita patil) was raped and killed by the villains and the ompuri is put infront of the court as the killer. When Ompuri was bailed out for brief moment to attend to his father's funeral rites, he kills his sister so that someone else doesn't rape her. Govind Nihalani's(director cum cinematographer) camera catches the wounded animal cry of Ompuri when he axes his sister-bringing the end credits.
Aakrosh, Govind Nihalani's first film, brought him lot of accolades and an year later he was directing Attenborough's Gandhi as second unit director.
It's the responsibilty of the writer to present the story in a lucid manner, and it should not be the pain of the viewer to try to understand the story. After understanding the basic story, if the viewer can find innumerable interpretations or associations or multi-layered inferences, it's a different matter altogether.
The 2 films I liked of Shyam Benegal's are 'Antarnaad' and 'Suraj kaa saatwaan Ghodaa', based on Dharam Vir Bharati's novel.
'Suraj kaa saatwaan Ghodaa' had 4 fashbacks at somepoint in the narrative and is Shyam's masterpeice, in my opinion.
"What I'm suggesting to you is, if you can't name the foreign minister of Mexico, therefore, you know, you're not capable of what you do. But the truth of the matter is you are, whether you can or not." --George W. Bush, as quoted in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, Nov. 6, 1999.
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Nanigadu
Kindergarten Brain
Username: Nanigadu
Post Number: 25
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 74.98.211.96
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 04:14 pm: |
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conn,
nenu baganey vunnanu, indian idol 3 manam baga age baru avuthamemo samy, I heard that Voice of India on Star has got good singers, but I was not able to digest that Sa Re Ga Ma Pa, its too gross for me..., inka Hazaron Khwaishey Aisi its a good movie, by the way heroine aa movie lo telugu pilla, its a good movie, not that great, acting wise too much chesaru mugguru, oka sari chudocchu, i think its on desitorrents
Dream as if u will live forever ..... live as if you will die tomorrow.......
http://www.ragaswaram.blogspot.com
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Kallis29
Junior Brain
Username: Kallis29
Post Number: 216
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 208.107.92.228
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 03:27 pm: |
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kallis babai i was trying to watch hazaron khwahishen aisi for long now but cudnt get hold of dvd anywhere. is it that good movie?>>
Parvaledu babai oka sari choodochu..slow narration..kaani konni konni scenes chala bavuntayi. I am fan of kk's acting,and a cinema lo veroine kooda chala bavuntundi..btw i got that movie from a public library hehe..
"The radical of one century is the conservative of the next. The radical invents the views. When he has worn them out, the conservative adopts them."
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Anand_n
Junior Brain
Username: Anand_n
Post Number: 294
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 167.24.104.150
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 03:13 pm: |
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Kallis,
Yeah I've seen Hazaaron khwahishe aisi - very powerful film
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
Suraj ki pehli kiran se, asha ka savera jage chanda ki kiraN se dhul kar, ghanghor andhera bhage
kabhi dhoop khile kabhi chhaav mile,lambii sii Dagar na khale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
ik aise gagan ke tale
http://www.dishant.com/album/The_Golden_Collection_Vol_2_-_Kishore_Kumar.html
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Connoisseur
Junior Brain
Username: Connoisseur
Post Number: 215
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 199.33.140.2
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 03:06 pm: |
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kallis babai i was trying to watch hazaron khwahishen aisi for long now but cudnt get hold of dvd anywhere. is it that good movie?
Gangi govu paalu garitedayinanu chaalu.
A Connoisseur of good posts, movies and actors.
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Kallis29
Junior Brain
Username: Kallis29
Post Number: 215
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 208.107.92.228
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 03:02 pm: |
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Anand, kummaru..your explaination is simply superb. did you see the movie 'Hazaar kwahishe aise'..there is similar commentary about the relation between the landlord and peasants in that movie ( The peasants who want to the kill the landlord, endup admitting him the hospital..showing some kind of swami bhakthi as a result of prolonged oppression)
"The radical of one century is the conservative of the next. The radical invents the views. When he has worn them out, the conservative adopts them."
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Connoisseur
Junior Brain
Username: Connoisseur
Post Number: 213
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 199.33.140.2
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 02:59 pm: |
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>>hello conn, how have u been long time no see...
baa unnanu babai. how r u ? wat happened to singing? any chances of going for indian idol3. it already started.
Gangi govu paalu garitedayinanu chaalu.
A Connoisseur of good posts, movies and actors.
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Nanigadu
Kindergarten Brain
Username: Nanigadu
Post Number: 24
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 74.98.211.96
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 02:51 pm: |
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anand bhai, well explained, i totally agree with you, may be thats the human nature when forced to live in certain circumstances.
hello conn, how have u been long time no see...
Dream as if u will live forever ..... live as if you will die tomorrow.......
http://www.ragaswaram.blogspot.com
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Nihil
Junior Brain
Username: Nihil
Post Number: 160
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 59.93.115.72
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 02:43 pm: |
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It was also a statement on social change - if the revolt and change is held off too long , the victims learn to live with the problem and become desensitised.
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Anand ji .. 5 *
Good summarisation of generic human social behavior
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Connoisseur
Junior Brain
Username: Connoisseur
Post Number: 206
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 199.33.140.2
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 02:34 pm: |
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>>>It was also a statement on social change - if the revolt and change is held off too long , the victims learn to live with the problem and become desensitised.
anand bhai nee kaallu ekkada? nee sashtanga vandanam cheyyali urgent gaa. too much cheppavu babai.
Gangi govu paalu garitedayinanu chaalu.
A Connoisseur of good posts, movies and actors.
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Anand_n
Junior Brain
Username: Anand_n
Post Number: 291
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 167.24.104.150
Rating: 
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 02:31 pm: |
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Nihil,
Nishaant chusi chala years ayyindi ...But the ending was shocking but had a lot of angles ...
There were a few scenes leading up to her decision...
She thinks her husband did not do anything to free her (she is unaware of his efforts)
All the conversations in the house which convince her that she will not be accepted back by the husband ( again this is her assumption)
And then Stockholm syndrome - starting to actually love the good captor in defense of the bad brothers
In the end she decided to stick with the guy who showed her kindness in the torture instead of abandoning him to the mob - and gets killed with Naseeruddin.
It was also a statement on social change - if the revolt and change is held off too long , the victims learn to live with the problem and become desensitised.
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
Suraj ki pehli kiran se, asha ka savera jage chanda ki kiraN se dhul kar, ghanghor andhera bhage
kabhi dhoop khile kabhi chhaav mile,lambii sii Dagar na khale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
ik aise gagan ke tale
http://www.dishant.com/album/The_Golden_Collection_Vol_2_-_Kishore_Kumar.html
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Nihil
Junior Brain
Username: Nihil
Post Number: 159
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 59.93.115.72
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 01:49 pm: |
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CON
---------
Thats why i am confused and talking about ..
did i miss some crucial part of the movie or is there something else ..
anyway .....much appreciate if any body could put thier input who have seen this movie
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Nihil
Junior Brain
Username: Nihil
Post Number: 158
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 59.93.115.72
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 01:47 pm: |
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I don't but, this is some thing like whats been described as Battered wife Syndrome and Stolkhome Syndrome
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Means u sypathise with the oppressors and espouse thier cause
This has been famously demonstrated in real life Stolkhome Flight hijacking
After their release , all the hostages immensely symapathised with the hijackers
as is the same case with battered wives who protect to their husbands to any extant and nver complain ..
i have seen couple of these 
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anyway ......much appreciate Anand ji's input in this movie ......whether i correctly undersood or is there another version
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Connoisseur
Junior Brain
Username: Connoisseur
Post Number: 199
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 199.33.140.2
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 01:38 pm: |
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nihil bhai may be there shud have been scenes justifying the climax.
anything can be shown in bad way or in good light. in this case though i am not convinced abt the climax, it can be justified.
say she might have liked the way ppl treated her when she was with that family and may be there is a role in movie of a mad woman who once went thro all this and then became mad after left by the vilalins(one who have seen the movie shud confirm it).
Gangi govu paalu garitedayinanu chaalu.
A Connoisseur of good posts, movies and actors.
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Jmk
Junior Brain
Username: Jmk
Post Number: 256
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 24.126.171.230
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 01:25 pm: |
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manaku hindi lightings voltage thakkuva bedar...mana palak paneer akkayya garu elagu vastharu kassepaTlo..neeku flood light vestharu
తెలుగదేల యన్న దేశంబు తెలుగేను
తెలుగు వల్లభుండ తెలుగొకండ
యెల్ల నృపులు గొలువ యెరున్ వే బాసాడి
దేశభాషలందు తెలుగు లెస్స
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Nihil
Junior Brain
Username: Nihil
Post Number: 157
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 59.93.115.72
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 01:19 pm: |
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JMK annayya
------
i still couldn't grapple why she stayed with amrish puris rather than going back to Karnad and kid
throw some light on this
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Jmk
Junior Brain
Username: Jmk
Post Number: 254
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 170.35.208.22
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 01:01 pm: |
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Nishaant
తెలుగదేల యన్న దేశంబు తెలుగేను
తెలుగు వల్లభుండ తెలుగొకండ
యెల్ల నృపులు గొలువ యెరున్ వే బాసాడి
దేశభాషలందు తెలుగు లెస్స
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Just_jk
Kindergarten Brain
Username: Just_jk
Post Number: 9
Registered: 05-2007
Posted From: 155.104.37.17
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 01:01 pm: |
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I have seen this movie in parts long time ago in DD. Don't remember much. One thing I remember is, even though it is a hindi movie, you can here people talking in telugu in the backgorund. |
Nihil
Junior Brain
Username: Nihil
Post Number: 155
Registered: 04-2007
Posted From: 59.93.115.72
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 12:54 pm: |
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I watched this movie in UK an year back
it was relyed in channel 4
i don't remember this movie name but the story goes like this
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Hindi movie which was set in Adilabad dist in Telangana
actors .....
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Amrish puri and his 2 brothers .... They are Patels in a small rural village where they are like dictators .... Landlords who can have any girl they want in that village
no body dare to question them
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Shabana Ajmi , Girish Karnad and their son ... They are techers who come to that village on transfer
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One day , one of Amrish puri's brother eyed Shabana Ajmi and forcefully take her to his home and rape her ...... his another brother also rapes her in tandem
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though Shanbana initially resisted , afterwards she passively cooperates
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story continues like this ... Girish karnad and the sons attempts to rescue her but in vain
--
but , one day ....Amrish Puri let Shabana go ...but to everybodys astonishment she prefers to stay with the brothers
Girish karnad is gutted movie ends
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can somebody elaborates ...whether iam correct .. and which movie is this
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